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Letters to Cyclingnews - September 1, 2006, part 2Here's your chance to get more involved with Cyclingnews. Comments and criticism on current stories, races, coverage and anything cycling related are welcomed, even pictures if you wish. Letters should be brief (less than 300 words), with the sender clearly identified. They may be edited for space and clarity; please stick to one topic per letter. We will normally include your name and place of residence, but not your email address unless you specify in the message. Please email your correspondence to letters@cyclingnews.com. More on doping and the Landis situationThe second of this week's letters pages is again devoted almost entirely to the fall-out of Floyd Landis' testosterone doping positive test and Operacion Puerto. - John Stevenson, letters editor September 1, part 1:
The Eneco Tour controversy: Details, Reporting, Eneco vs doping, Time bonuses?, Who was at fault?, One of those things, Discovery behaviour, More barricades, No way for Schumacher to stop, Hard to stop, Officials to blame, The rules, Schumacher amazing, Hincapie's 2nd Place Trophy Recent lettersDick Pound Dick PoundWhile it is easy to criticize Mr. Pound for 'shooting from the lip' and so on, perhaps those who wish to sue him or criticize him should consider the fact that he has access to test results for who knows how many athletes and events going back to whenever. What is finally coming out is probably but the tip of the tip of an iceberg of denial that unfortunately has reached its critical mass or mess. After he made rather unpopular accusations about doping in the NHL, he challenged the league to start drug testing. Suddenly things went from defamation to deafening silence. Mr. Pound is a lawyer. Whether he is also a good poker player remains to be seen, but until I have seen all his cards I'd be cautious. He may be looking for an excuse to play them. While it is disheartening for some to discover that many or most of their heroes have been 'medicated' for oh so many years, don't take it out on the messenger. I suspect he's being less vindictive than he could be, and we could do well to support his efforts rather than searching for a lame excuse to undermine them. John Park Dick PoundIn response to Jean Boisjoli's letter of August 21, Pound's speculations have been shown to be inaccurate. "One third of National Hockey League players take some form of drugs" is an interesting speculation on Pound's part, but it is not supported by the drug testing performed so far. From the Canadian Press (June 12/06): "There were no positive drug tests among the 1,406 administered under the NHL's new anti-doping program, which targets steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs but not stimulants." Pound should keep his mouth shut until such time as he can substantiate his claims. Brady Ryall Dick PoundDick isn't doing his job! If he really wanted to help eradicate drugs in sports then he should be tough but fair and work hard to earn the respect of the athletes. He should be pissed at the UCI for not following their procedures not at Floyd who is in enough trouble already. Let the rules take care of doping infractions and the Pounds of the world be the custodians of the rules. He is NOT doing his job of oversight and governance! Marc Davidson Dick PoundIn response to the letter from Jean Boisjoli, the problem with Mr. Pound (other than the fact he has a persona to match his name) is that as head of WADA he appears to have given himself the title of King Richard the Dope Slayer in his Crusade against drugs in sport. His comments on the NHL and NFB were made without concrete evidence or any formal testing to back them up. I think the issue here is not whether his comments are correct, but more his method of getting himself and his organization heard. Whatever his reasons for being as vocal as he is, I can't help but see flashes of McCarthy-ism in his demeanour, and hope he is dissuaded from seeing the entire professional sporting world as "Red". Darryl Huculak Devil is in the detailWhen it is reported an athlete has been tested, what I would like to see is better reporting of what exactly was tested - maybe this means either better investigative journalism or more transparent transmission of this information by the testing authorities. Was it a urine test, a blood test or both? Was EPO, test:epitest ratios, nandrolone etc tested for (list them all), or was it just the haematocrit screen? Could the scenario of a positive test popping up amid a batch of before and after negatives not be the case of a conspiracy or poor testing, merely that the more comprehensive test was applied whereas cost and turnaround constraints meant that a brief screen was done on the other tests? Simon Day Diane Modahl and Floyd LandisFrom my reading Diane Modahl was not able to prove that the large amount of testosterone in her sample was due to bacterial action, she was however able to bring into question the handling of her samples, and the latter was the basis on which she won her appeal. The Independent Newspaper quoted a member of the appeal panel as saying at the time: `On the evidence before us, there is a possibility, which cannot be ignored, that the cause of the T/E {testosterone/epitestosterone} ratio in the sample of her urine was not that testosterone had been administered but that the samples had become degraded owing to their being stored in unrefrigerated conditions, and that bacteriological action had resulted in an increase in the amount of testosterone in the samples.' So we're talking about `possibility' not conclusive fact, and subsequent research by Kicman et al (see http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/48/10/1799) concluded that : 'urinary testosterone can increase as a result of microbial action; however, the increases observed were small, and hence, the changes in the T/E ratio were minor.' but in Modahl's case they found a massive increase in testosterone. Finally a post in podiumcafe on testosterone states: `...it has never been proven that bacterial "activities" have caused an initially negative result to turn into a positive.' I assume that in similar cases today the test for the origin of the testosterone would be the conclusive one. Stephen Burke Dick McQuaid?If the report of McQuaid’s comments in Welt am Sontag are accurately reported, he has joined the Pound club by publicly presuming Ullrich’s guilt and punishment before he has even been charged with any offence. It is as outrageous for the president of the UCI to shoot off his mouth to a newspaper as it is for the head of WADA. Does anyone in authority in sport or the anti drug mafia believe in due process any more? Bill Kinkead Fitting punishmentWith world class athletes and cyclists caught doping refusing to name their sources it's time to upgrade the punishment. Two years ban plus two years more banned from a pro team for a first offence is reasonable for cycling, but there should be an automatic life ban when those caught fail to name their sources. Not easy to legislate for but possible. The effect would be two-fold, an added incentive not to dope and an opportunity for the UCI (with a few rule changes) to ban the dope peddlers from our sport forever. It would also be helpful if all countries made sports doping a criminal offence. A lifetime ban plus the threat of criminal proceedings would act as a great deterrent. John Floyd Landis and polygraphThey are not reliable. As an example consider the following serial killer: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3243015.stm Peter Hall Floyd Landis and polygraphIn response to John Epperson’s letter wondering why Landis does not take a polygraph test, I would surmise that he is not taking one because they are not accurate, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygraph. Whilst Floyd is questioning the testosterone test it would seem foolhardy to throw another bogus test result into the mix. Angus Barber Jake to play Lance?Startled to read this morning's offering that Jake Gyllenhal was picked to play Lance.I wonder if the guy can keep up with any local "B" rides. It seems that the producers are looking for some "insurance" for their investment by naming Jake but I think they are missing the mark BIGTIME! To me, a much better, more authentic, choice would be the "actor who cycles competitively", Paul-Mark Gosselaar (of the TV show "NYPD BLUE"). Just check him out. I think your fellow cycling news operation even did an article on his racing... Sam Veal La Vuelta coverageAlthough the doping scandal just recently occurred, perhaps people in the USA would stop ranting over it if we could somehow get tele coverage here in the states for La Vuelta a Espana. Just a thought. Nardo Rodriguez Natural process still possible, likelihood uncertainI have two comments on the thread started by Dr. Marker. First, I don't believe it is correct to say, as Mark Walker and Matthew Jones suggest, that Landis' previous tests would have been positive for exogenous testosterone if the post-Stage 17 positive were the result of the natural conversion process offered by Dr. Marker since I don't think the carbon-isotope would have been performed on those samples. As I understand the testing protocol from reading the WADA website - the test for endogenous versus exogenous testosterone is only performed after a T:E ratio of greater than 4:1 is found. If the T:E ratio is within the limits, the second, presumably more sophisticated and expensive, test is not performed. Thus, if Landis' previous samples were within the 4:1 T:E limit, they would not have been tested for exogenous testosterone. Therefore, the absence of positive results for exogenous hormone from those samples does not suggest that no synthetic hormone was present and do not undermine the hypothesis put forward by Dr. Marker. However, since those samples should still be available, perhaps retesting them now could show similar positive results for exogenous hormone and, ironically, present a possible defence for Landis. Second, I'm not certain of one premise of Dr. Marker's hypothesis: that the positive carbon isotope test even needs to be explained by a conversion of cortisone to testosterone. Instead, it seems that unconverted synthetic cortisone in Landis' urine could explain the result of the carbon isotope test with perhaps other innocent explanations for the high T:E ratio. I have been wondering about this possibility since I read the following on cyclingnews.com from August 1 (emphasis added): "A source "within the UCI anti-doping department, with knowledge of the result" Landis' probe returned, said in an interview that *some* of the testosterone in his body had come from an external source and was not produced by his system." How much is some? I'm no scientist but as I understand the carbon-isotope test, tests for elevated levels of certain carbon isotopes that would be present if hormones in the sample were derived from plant hormones, which have higher levels of such isotopes and are used to manufacture synthetic human hormones. It is conducted on the sample - the vial of the athlete's urine taken from the athlete - not specifically on a particular chemical (testosterone) dissolved in that urine. In other words, it is not a follow up test on the testosterone but a second, different test on the same urine. Thus, the positive result from the carbon isotope positive only reveals that there were levels of certain carbon isotopes consistent with synthetic hormones derived from plant sterols in Landis' urine (but not necessarily the testosterone in his urine). While cortisone and testosterone are apparently sufficiently distinct to avoid confusion when conducting the T:E ratio test, I wonder whether they can be differentiated in the carbon isotope test. Given that cortisone (C21H28O5) has 21 carbon atoms versus 19 carbon atoms in testosterone (C19H28O2), it would seem that synthetic cortisone is as much to be suspected as the cause of the positive carbon isotope test as is synthetic testosterone. If so, the testing protocol for the carbon isotope test is based on a flawed assumption - namely, that the sample being test should not have synthetic hormones of any kind. In Landis' case, however, this assumption is wrong: Landis was allowed to have synthetic cortisone in his urine. So if there were an innocent explanation for the high T/E ratio (including Landis' aggressive riding, naturally high or variable high and/or low or variable epitestosterone, lingering effects of alcohol consumption) then the positive result from the carbon-isotope test could be caused by his permitted use of synthetic cortisone - thereby explaining the entire affair. John Ehinger Natural process still possible, likelihood uncertainThe question that both Mr. Walker and Mr. Jones ask is a fair one: if Landis's system is naturally converting cortisone to testosterone, why did this only show up once? The answer may be glaringly obvious, but not in the way Mr. Walker suggests. If I understand correctly, the carbon isotope test is an expensive test to perform, and would only have been performed on prior samples if the T/E ratio was higher than 4:1. Alex Duke Natural process still possible, likelihood uncertainCC: tss111@yahoo.com The information on a Pfizer web site: http://www.pfizercentresource.com/product_sheets/hydrocortisone_hemisuccinate_monohydrate.html has the following statement: Pfizer produces steroid active pharmaceutical ingredients (APIs) by what is best described as a semi-synthetic process using a crude mixture of vegetable sterols that are isolated from various oilseeds as the starting material. These vegetable sterols, stigmasterol and sitosterol, are processed through several fermentation and chemical steps to yield Hydrocortisone Hemisuccinate. It can be seen that vegetable sterols are use to make cortisone. If testosterone originated from this cortisone, it would test as coming from an exogenous source. Research has shown that high t/e ratio can come from heavy exercise. Since test for exogenous sources is only done if the t/e ratio is high, his other samples were not tested as to the source of the testosterone. Although all professional bicycle racing is heavy exercise, his effort on the stage in question was felt to represent an exceptionally hard effort which could make it the reason for the high ratio. The explanation then is he had an elevated t/e ratio due to the high effort he put in. The "exogenous" testosterone was found in only this sample because it was the only sample that was tested. More research needs to be done before these tests are used to eliminate riders. Thomas Scanlon Protour rankingsSo, Floyd Landis has been removed from 2nd place in the UCI ProTour Rankings 'pending a doping investigation' and now 37th-placed Jan Ullrich has been removed, also 'pending a doping investigation'. I understand that this is part of the UCI distancing themselves from having high profile names on the ProTour rankings while they are under investigation and is part of them taking action against those who have failed drug tests and are implicated in doping scandals BUT why is Ivan Basso still in 5th place? Is he not in the exact same position as Ullrich in terms of 'a doping investigation'? Why is Ullrich being treated differently than Basso in this instance? And there is also 31st-placed José Enrique Gutierrez Cataluna. What of his status under 'a doping investigation'? Or 53rd-placed Santiago Botero? It is, of course, only a small point and is motivated, perhaps, by Ullrich's larger public profile, but surely the UCI should be treating all those implicated in Operacion Puerto in the same manner and not changing their treatment depending on the fame of the people involved. If one person is going to be removed 'pending a doping investigation' then it makes sense that all those involved in 'a doping investigation' should be removed. Shane Murphy, Hour Record & TourI agree with Tim Shame on the hour-record subject, it deserves more attention, but the reputation of a discipline doesn't only depend on the media, but even more on the value cyclists give to it. Since it is impossible for 95% of the peloton to even come close to the fastest times, its kind of logical that there isn't much interest in the discipline. I have to disagree with you on the things you say about next years Tour and your ideas on time trials. First of all a downhill time trial would be crazy. If someone can win the tour in this discipline, people start taking risks that can lead to serious crashes. And what about the problem of taking over other riders, letting the crowds stand on the track etc, way too dangerous if you ask me. Then there's the thing about boni-seconds. The thing is that in a flat stage sprinters deserve boni seconds since most times the whole peloton finishes in the same time as the first rider and they need a chance to get yellow as well. In the mountains i agree boni seconds make no sense, since there is already a time difference. This is why in many races there's a different boni-system in mountain-stages. However this is not the case in the tour. But i would rather change that than awarding bonification seconds in time trials, since there are already major gaps created. You say its half-second work, but i would like to remind you that, not counting Landis, just 2 guys finished within 3 minutes of Gonchar in the last time trial this year. So if you ask me, stop awarding bonification seconds in mountain stages because it makes no sense. What you could do is awarding serious bonification seconds on a halfway mountain top to make the race more interesting, but that is something else. Bram Hafkamp Response to 'No Doping Control is Insane'As a good example of this, look at Paolo Savoldelli's inability to perform in the Giro because he could not be properly treated for his allergies. As an allergy sufferer myself -- allergic to dust, grass, trees, and mould -- I found this a little preposterous. Allergic reactions can cause severe performance problems, but, because of the banned substances list, these riders were not able to get relief and had to race feeling like they had taken sleeping pills (which is what my allergies -- when not treated -- make me feel like). (It's my assumption that this is the reason that these riders were not treated, let me know if I'm wrong). Even large amounts of caffeine will help an allergy sufferer feel better but, (again my assumption) large amounts of caffeine are even on the banned substances list. Additionally, something that has not been brought up is that the human body can not "naturally" recover correctly giving the pro racing schedule. If this is the case, and athletes have obligations (to their sponsors) to constantly perform, what are the athletes supposed to do? I also think its ridiculous that sponsors drop out like they are not involved when its the drive to get their name in front of the camera that motivates all of this supplementation! Brad Bueche Ullrich's trial by mediaI think never in cycling history a cyclist has been treated by the public, the media and of course the cycling organisations like Jan Ullrich is currently is being treated. He is being treated like a big criminal. Even the German authorities are starting charges against him. First of all, he has never been tested positive this year, secondly he has been suspended without any substantial evidence. He has been found guilty before it has been proven that he is guilty. I think the evidence will not be substantial enough and his lawyers will end this soap very soon. It is a shame of everyone involved in the cycling community or interested in cycling to treat a cyclist like this. Let's face it Jan Ullrich is one of the greatest cyclists in history and he doesn't deserve to be treated like this. It is only doping; nothing more nothing less. He is not a murderer, a terrorist, or a rapist. Shame, shame, shame on everybody Arnold Scheer Recent letters pagesLetters 2006
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